The Getai, Makedon and Seleukia

aye, but not many!

meh its late and i'm up at 4.30am for work so i'll list my points bulletpointed-ish regarding the Getic position on the future of this alliance, so excuse it if it seems curt and demanding-ish, its not meant to be! It's for us to discuss!

The existence of Pontos had been important to the Getae since they controlled the Black Sea and therefore my Eastern flank. While it is a shame that Pontos leadership has shown to be lacking, the new relationship and firm partnership between the Getae and Makedon made a Pontic alliance increasingly redundant anyway. However, if Pontos is to be destroyed with full cooperation of Makedon and the Getae, it is important that we establish and have full control of the Black Sea. More importantly for the Getae, we would require the same troop transport capacity Pontos offers either procured for ourself to use independently, or in conjunction with Makedon. With this in mind, I believe it would be disadvantageous for us to completely hand over an asset like the Pontic navy that we discuss about buying. I would be far more happy discussing a loan/cooperation deal in which we help transport Seleukid troops when needed while retaining autonomy and ownership of the fleet.

The Getae will follow the Makedonian King wherever will benefit him most, and if that is East to help Seleukia so be it. But it has to be recognised that Seleukia ends in Asia Minor. While appreciative of the offer to help campaign in a future war against the Greeks, I believe we should discuss a limit of Seleukid troops allowed on Greek soil. This is not to be ungrateful and suspicious, but just a sign of respect towards us. Plus, it would be of greater importance for Seleukia to engage the Ptolemies if this war broke out, to keep them from focusing on getting troops to the greek mainland.

Currently, the Getae trade with both Pontos and Makedon. If we are to accomplice the downfall of his kingdom, we need to be assured trade with the Seleukid empire and even perhaps his friends, the Sauromatae, in order to bring about closer relations and more than compensate for loss of income.

I am keen on this relationship, our three heads together is pretty intimidating stuff, but want it to be on an equal keel between makedon and seleukia, west and east. With my diplomatic relations, i could really help seleukia remove and influence some of its foes to dramatically reduce the length of conflict

anyhow, thoughts? discussions?

meh its late and i'm up at 4.30am for work so i'll list my points bulletpointed-ish regarding the Getic position on the future of this alliance, so excuse it if it seems curt and demanding-ish, its not meant to be! It's for us to discuss!

The existence of Pontos had been important to the Getae since they controlled the Black Sea and therefore my Eastern flank. While it is a shame that Pontos leadership has shown to be lacking, the new relationship and firm partnership between the Getae and Makedon made a Pontic alliance increasingly redundant anyway. However, if Pontos is to be destroyed with full cooperation of Makedon and the Getae, it is important that we establish and have full control of the Black Sea. More importantly for the Getae, we would require the same troop transport capacity Pontos offers either procured for ourself to use independently, or in conjunction with Makedon. With this in mind, I believe it would be disadvantageous for us to completely hand over an asset like the Pontic navy that we discuss about buying. I would be far more happy discussing a loan/cooperation deal in which we help transport Seleukid troops when needed while retaining autonomy and ownership of the fleet.

Would this only apply to buying Pontic ships though? I think that would be fair. It deprives Pontus but enhances our fleets. Otherwise, Selcia can afford to buy so many ships if it used its income in a big way, I don't think there is much we could do about it.

I have to say, not the Pontic fleet, but the Ptolemaioi fleet is absolutely huge. Far better to fight them on land than at sea. Ptolemaioi's even have the super warships as far as I'm aware.

The Getae will follow the Makedonian King wherever will benefit him most, and if that is East to help Seleukia so be it. But it has to be recognised that Seleukia ends in Asia Minor. While appreciative of the offer to help campaign in a future war against the Greeks, I believe we should discuss a limit of Seleukid troops allowed on Greek soil. This is not to be ungrateful and suspicious, but just a sign of respect towards us. Plus, it would be of greater importance for Seleukia to engage the Ptolemies if this war broke out, to keep them from focusing on getting troops to the greek mainland.

This would give us specific areas of campaign, but I appear to have developed an issue with the KH. Martok may possibly be Arakano, I have my suspicions. Whatever the case, this move on Thermon is very aggressive, especially considering Selucia has more or less said to do so would be an act of war. If the KH is to be taken out with some alacrity, so we can get on with the business of dealing with Pontus etc, I fear I shall need Selucid troops. Yes, I think Epeiros' main force will be smashed next turn but that still leaves various cities to be assaulted/sieged.

Currently, the Getae trade with both Pontos and Makedon. If we are to accomplice the downfall of his kingdom, we need to be assured trade with the Seleukid empire and even perhaps his friends, the Sauromatae, in order to bring about closer relations and more than compensate for loss of income.

totally agree. No point having alliance without trade and all the benefits. I presume you mean to wait until we're ready to strike though. Or Arakano will know and it will leak.

I am keen on this relationship, our three heads together is pretty intimidating stuff, but want it to be on an equal keel between makedon and seleukia, west and east. With my diplomatic relations, i could really help seleukia remove and influence some of its foes to dramatically reduce the length of conflict

Would this only apply to buying Pontic ships though? I think that would be fair. It deprives Pontus but enhances our fleets. Otherwise, Selcia can afford to buy so many ships if it used its income in a big way, I don't think there is much we could do about it.

I have to say, not the Pontic fleet, but the Ptolemaioi fleet is absolutely huge. Far better to fight them on land than at sea. Ptolemaioi's even have the super warships as far as I'm aware.

Yeah ofcourse, my point being that since we have the chance to procure this asset, we shouldn't just pass it through. Ofcourse Jack can afford a massive fleet and has every right and my full-support in doing so, he'll need it against the Ptolemy and maybe even Carthage/KH in future! But control of the Black Sea must remain Getic/Makedon and we are in need of building our naval power, hence the opportunity to aquire the Pontic fleet should be taken but taken for ourselves ultimately.

This would give us specific areas of campaign, but I appear to have developed an issue with the KH. Martok may possibly be Arakano, I have my suspicions. Whatever the case, this move on Thermon is very aggressive, especially considering Selucia has more or less said to do so would be an act of war. If the KH is to be taken out with some alacrity, so we can get on with the business of dealing with Pontus etc, I fear I shall need Selucid troops. Yes, I think Epeiros' main force will be smashed next turn but that still leaves various cities to be assaulted/sieged.

Funnily enough, i was just having the same suspicions... can't you check pleasy? Like i said, i'd welcome seleukid help in a possible war against the KH, i just think there should be a troop limit...obviously transports and other priorities will undoubtedly limit this, but having 30,000+ troops landing close from ANY nation would be a bit unnerving, hence why numbers need to be discussed should it come to it. Epeiros shold get smashed, but i think Arak will try fuck us up from the admin position, which won't be entirely fair. since i think martok IS arak, it is likely he'll attack you next

totally agree. No point having alliance without trade and all the benefits. I presume you mean to wait until we're ready to strike though. Or Arakano will know and it will leak.

agree buddy

I could bring an army of 4,000 infantry and 500 cavalry to Greece with my new fleet that Makedon has purchased for me from Pontos, I just don't think an army that size is going to intimidate Koinon Hellon, and certainly won't be enough for future plans to attack Asia minor from the west. I think I'll have to build myself at least another 30 transport ships so that I could bring 8,000 Infantry and 1,000 Cavalry, I may even try to build more ships than that, I'll have to check out the costs. But I do realise that having a foreign power setting down with a large army would be enough to unnerve anyone. Also, me taking 30,000+ to Greece via Makedon would spark too many rumours of an alliance between us anyway. I think it's actually much safer to say that I'll limit my troops involvement in Greece to 20,000 men at the most, and Pleasy could even publicly state once war commences that he's not comfortable having too many Seleukid troops at his doorstep.

Yer, you guys aren't the only ones suspecting Arak is playing more than just Carthage. To be honest the sooner Ben is back the better, then they'll be more things to distract Arak from looking east.

ok Jack mate, you get this one for free while I sort out my big post again, but using the Sauromatae army to threaten Hayasdan would certainly stop him interfering with your move against Pergamon. He's a cautious cat and too small(and smart) to try fight two wars. Simply wait for your Parthian victory to be complete and recall the Saurs against Armenia

To be honest I don't want to have to use the Sauromatae to intimidate Hayasdan, it would only sour our relationship, which has been painstakingly built up over the last 2 years (game-time), and it would also just drive Hayasdan into the arms of Pontos.
As Pleasy has discovered anyway, Hayasdan would seem likely to sit on the fence if war was to break out between Pontos/Ptolemoi/Koinon Hellon Vs Triple Alliance. I mean why wouldn't they want to? So far, thanks to every other nation's preoccupation with war they've gained 3 new provinces. I'm very tempted to accept their offer of handing them my city of Phraaspa in exchange for military access and them publicly leaving the EFA.

Now to your fears and worries; I'll happily open up trade with both of you once our alliance comes out in the open. I'm not looking to go any further west than Asia Minor (there be Romans that way ). And as for naval power, I'm only intending to buy this small navy from Pontos through Makedon, after that all my ships will be coming from Seleukid docks. And also to Thermo, I cannot 100% guarentee that the Sauromatae may have unfinished buisness with the Skythians, but I do know all of their troop positions, and they're not in any position to attack the Getai, and I would gladly inform you if they ever did seem to be amassing troops on their western front.

Hopefully I may soon find a route to destroying Ptolemy without even going to war again

Funnily enough, i was just having the same suspicions... can't you check pleasy? Like i said, i'd welcome seleukid help in a possible war against the KH, i just think there should be a troop limit...obviously transports and other priorities will undoubtedly limit this, but having 30,000+ troops landing close from ANY nation would be a bit unnerving, hence why numbers need to be discussed should it come to it. Epeiros shold get smashed, but i think Arak will try fuck us up from the admin position, which won't be entirely fair. since i think martok IS arak, it is likely he'll attack you next

I'll take a look at the IP addresses. that isn't a sure thig though.

I'll be sending my fleet to pick up more of your troops next turn if you're up for it Jack. That would be up to 12000 or so. But it will take 2 turns to reach Antioch I think.

Can I suggest you send a lone warsship to scout out the costs of Egypt Jack. It would give you an ide of what he has kicking about in terms of troops. I suspect much of the Egyptian army is in Asia Minor. Since Prah has control over them, it's unlikely he'll bother too much with decent sized garrisons apart from levies. A swift land and sea assault might take Egypt out in one stroke. Especially if it's timed with a surprise attack on Pontus as well. When the time is right of course!

Had a look at the IP addresses, Martok is Dusseldorf, but Arakano's simply reveals Germany. They are considerably different though, so they certainly appear to be different originating cities, so are likely to be different people.

Still, the moves made last night fill me with a small amount of despair. Those moves were definitely made in reaction to my generals request to the Thermon city troops carrying out various moves to try to fend off an attack. Yet Martok wasn't online when these moves were made.

I could bring an army of 4,000 infantry and 500 cavalry to Greece with my new fleet that Makedon has purchased for me from Pontos, I just don't think an army that size is going to intimidate Koinon Hellon, and certainly won't be enough for future plans to attack Asia minor from the west. I think I'll have to build myself at least another 30 transport ships so that I could bring 8,000 Infantry and 1,000 Cavalry, I may even try to build more ships than that, I'll have to check out the costs. But I do realise that having a foreign power setting down with a large army would be enough to unnerve anyone. Also, me taking 30,000+ to Greece via Makedon would spark too many rumours of an alliance between us anyway. I think it's actually much safer to say that I'll limit my troops involvement in Greece to 20,000 men at the most, and Pleasy could even publicly state once war commences that he's not comfortable having too many Seleukid troops at his doorstep.

Has pleasy already made the transaction with you for the navy mate? If not, it'd be great if at some point there was an option to buy back atleast a portion, especially if our job is going to be warring with the romans and such in the future

Obviously mate, your help in taking down the KH will be rewarded with our return campaigning in your favour and the three of us working together is scary for anyone. But since it will be the three of us taking down the KH, i'd be more in favour of limiting Seleukia's direct troop involvement to 12,000, but good idea about keeping distance between yourselves publicly for the time being. I'm sure when we hop over to asia minor we could still be in a position to appear to be helping pontos when everyone moves in for the kill

To be honest I don't want to have to use the Sauromatae to intimidate Hayasdan, it would only sour our relationship, which has been painstakingly built up over the last 2 years (game-time), and it would also just drive Hayasdan into the arms of Pontos.
As Pleasy has discovered anyway, Hayasdan would seem likely to sit on the fence if war was to break out between Pontos/Ptolemoi/Koinon Hellon Vs Triple Alliance. I mean why wouldn't they want to? So far, thanks to every other nation's preoccupation with war they've gained 3 new provinces. I'm very tempted to accept their offer of handing them my city of Phraaspa in exchange for military access and them publicly leaving the EFA.

yeah, i have to say, he's being doing everything he can to sit pretty and keep his hands from getting dirty... no reason to see why he'd change his mind. As his potential allies fall, he only becomes more isolated, vulnerable and dependent on your moods and whims anyways

Now to your fears and worries; I'll happily open up trade with both of you once our alliance comes out in the open. I'm not looking to go any further west than Asia Minor (there be Romans that way Wink ). And as for naval power, I'm only intending to buy this small navy from Pontos through Makedon, after that all my ships will be coming from Seleukid docks. And also to Thermo, I cannot 100% guarentee that the Sauromatae may have unfinished buisness with the Skythians, but I do know all of their troop positions, and they're not in any position to attack the Getai, and I would gladly inform you if they ever did seem to be amassing troops on their western front.

Hopefully I may soon find a route to destroying Ptolemy without even going to war again Twisted Evil

Good news mate, it'd be great if you could force the possibility for the Saurs to begin trading with me as a bit of added security, but to be honest, that flank doesn't bother me too much, just makes helping other operations more difficult! my point about buying this pontic fleet is that orignally it was to help pleasy rebuild his navy and it seemed a bit of missed opportunity to sell them on, though i dont think im clear on this deal between you both, hence why i mentioned the option to buy back the asset after. yup, iformations on sauromatae movements would ofcourse be very helpful and i appreciate it mate. hope we can do lots for you too!

pleasy

I'll take a look at the IP addresses. that isn't a sure thig though.

I'll be sending my fleet to pick up more of your troops next turn if you're up for it Jack. That would be up to 12000 or so. But it will take 2 turns to reach Antioch I think.

Can I suggest you send a lone warsship to scout out the costs of Egypt Jack. It would give you an ide of what he has kicking about in terms of troops. I suspect much of the Egyptian army is in Asia Minor. Since Prah has control over them, it's unlikely he'll bother too much with decent sized garrisons apart from levies. A swift land and sea assault might take Egypt out in one stroke. Especially if it's timed with a surprise attack on Pontus as well. When the time is right of course! Twisted Evil

i asked him, he was just translating for his mate apparently. i believe him to be honest, but it wouldn't surprise me if he has some kind of permission to interfere and that his mate isn't active...similiarish to the koo-prah thing and egypt

12,000 would be perfect , and good idea about the scouting, prah isn't so wise as he makes out and his campaigning in this game has really shown him up to be honest, wouldn't surprise me at all if what you say is right mate

I still have 500 odd gold left Thermo. I could buy more ships off Pontus I suppose. It's not as if that amount of cash will buy a huge number of troops. Though perhaps it would be best to wait until our current round of battles are over. Just in case there is some howler of a result, which I sort of expect there to be at some point. An elite unit or two breaking before a troop of mice in armour for example.

[fights the cynicism gene with all his might]

yeah unfortunately our battles will be run by arak and maybe prah, while i'd prefer rich or even more likely, Ben

Jack, why don't you offer to battle-admin...

can you blame us for being cynical

lol remember how we became friends pleasy, it was through cynicism when me and you had to bring down the Theo regime! Things come full-circle

Theo still hangs about the .com. He touts himself as a professor of WW2.

Oh, you think I should buy a bundle of his ships? I only have 500 to spend though. I think Prah would get very suspicious if we spent more. Or perhaps we should wait until recruitment time comes around and Jack might even lend or grant us some of his vast stack of cash!?

well we could try procure it so i have transports at kallatis with full autonomy, which would free up his own ships that are there now..... i may have a bit of cash, but i agree with you, we should see how much we are made to bleed by arak this turn

lol is theo still a crazy evangelist? we have to remember that he started all this

Yeah he sincerely believes in the The Rapture and spends some considerable amount of time trying to get people to look up his Near Death experience favourite website. I kid you not!

http://www.near-death.com/

That is the main one he points you too.

oh my lord