An unfortunate issue

yeah, best to keep the aces up our sleeves dudes

2 turns with 4,000 troops is fine. In 2 turns, we should have dealt with Epeiros. I've got to take care of a bit of business concerning the North where the Bastarnoz have attacked me. If i defeat their force, which I should since Tylis are marching north on my behalf too, they should come on side for a bit of gold. Their shock troops are awesome in attack, i'm sure Makedon and Seleukia wouldn't mind a contingent

My force required for my northern problems with neutrals needn't be much larger than 8000 troops, which frees up a whole bunch for a strategic insertion into Greece. I think the best way to make use of our main advantage (that their are three of us!) is attacking the KH everywhere at once.

He receives a large income from Rhodes, which is poorly defended. However, it is a level 5 settlement and could proves tough resistance/long siege. So unfortunately, i think that place will have to wait. Knossos in Crete, however, is ripe for the taking. The city is lv1 and defended by only 1000 troops. Seleukia's 4000 could assault this...on the way over It could be great bargaining power, "withdraw from Thermon or Crete will fall to us".... gives him something to think about anyway while me and pleasy get into position. Sparta and Corinth aren't particularly well defended either. Cirdan proved how effective such an operation could be with the right insertion. I'd be happy for my smaller army to be involved in such an attack upon the Peloponnese, reinforced later by Seleukia's forces while Makedon's main army closed in from the north?

If only we had airborne troops we could envelope from three dimensions!

This is exactly what I was thinking about, hold them at the passes while a double envelopment from the sea occurs. The timing for Selucian forces arriving does seem to fit in very well with this approach, as you say Thermo.

Jack might be able to peel off two small forces for sieging both of the islands on he way with his main force. This sudden assault on all his possessions should create total panic and hopefully headless chicken syndrome. He might then send forces all over the place allowing us to smash up his force piecemeal.

The only concern is that the KH smashes through the passes and into the interior of Makedonia. But if all goes well with Epeiros this shouldn't be a huge concern. As far as I understand he'd have to siege any of my cities prior to an assault.

My only other concern would be a sudden attack by Prah on Jack's navies. But I think this is highly unlikely.

headless chicken syndrome! THAT was the term i was looking for! the great thing about going for his islands too, is that it might encourage him to move his navy further away from greece, making him more vulnerable to this naval envelopment. I think its a smart option.

1) so Jack applies pressure on him to withdraw from Thermon
2) draws attention away from the mainland, most importantly it draws the attention of his navy
3) creates headless chicken syndrome and a scenario where either he must split forces to try retain ALL our target and thus weaken himself massively and lose them anyway, or he keeps his force together and strong and loses some anyway again. Win win scenarios. I'm surprised Sparta is a level 3 city though.....

Damn right, it never had walls until the slaves took over about 171 BC. In EB it has to have walls though to allow the various buildings.

In reality, it should have no walls.

what do you think about jack attacking crete on his way? level 1, shit army... would up the ante and buy us time to get into position?

...and if he did, would crete become seleukid territory or makedon?

I like the idea. As you say it would cause a wonderful diversion. I'd suggest he hits Rhodes as well.

But I think this strike should occur either the turn before we aim to attack the KH with great force, or at the beginning of the turn giving him time to panic. Then after the KH forces have reacted, we strike in turn and he having no move points and little reserve is fucked in one turn more or less. I favour the same turn approach but With Martok rarely being online we might rely on Arakano to warn him, or react on his behalf.

I think any overt aggression by Jack should occur after he's landed any troops meant for the main campaign in Greece have landed though. Either way, timing will be very difficult indeed and we should expect some cock ups. But if the plan even goes 75% right we should have him on the ropes in a single season.

We should possibly consider the chance that Prah will decalre war on us for this action. I suspect he thinks that the KH will keep us tied up for years. If we effectively smash the KH in one turn he might do his usual panicking and declare war.

On the spoils, Crete or Rhodes seems fair. It gives a major jumping off point for Asia Minor and both must have ports. But i'm pretty laid back about this issue and would likely go with any reasonable request made by Selucia.

agree with all above

i'd suggest rhodes for seleukia with its proximity to asia minor. it is a higher level prize too, a level 3 city, which seems fair since it will be him doing the attack

Well looks like it's all planned out for me lol.

I think I'd go with pleasy on the timing of the attacks though. It's gonna be roughly 2 turns till you guys have dealt with Epeiros and freed up your troops right? So I think my small army of 4,000 attacking Rhodes or Crete may just end in KH's navy coming east and thereby halting or even destroying Makedon's fleet transporting the 2nd wave of Seleukid troops, I'm assuming that KH does currently have a far superior navy to yours pleasy after Pergamon's destruction of your main fleet. Let's not forget as well that neither Pergamon (Since Arak is effectively their ruler and already thinks I'm too strong), Ptolemy or Pontos are going to be overjoyed at the prospect of me taking Rhodes, which as you said is an ideal jumping off point to re-assert my authority in Asia Minor. I think it's better to have my 2nd expeditionary force being transported by Makedon to attack Rhodes, it also means that any attempt to strand my army on the island would mean having to attack Makedon's fleet in order to do so. Hopefully, I may have enough money to recruit a small fleet of my own anyway, which could mean bringing 15,000 instead of 10,000. Since I'll be wanting to garrison at least 4,000 in Rhodes, with lvl3 defences that should then become a nice stronghold for me.
Apart from Rhodes I'm happy to let you guys divide all the other conquests, after all my territories aren't really at risk in this Greek war, and 20,000 troops aren't that much for me to sacrifice sending west, not when you look at the size of my army on the whole

More good news is the Sarmatian's impending attack on Parthia's northern lands, this one has worked to perfection. I've had my 1st Baktrian army chasing him round the plains keeping his field armies occupied, whilst my 2nd Army has snuck up on his southern settlement, Nisa. He'll now rush south to save his southern settlement (he only has 2 settlements in total), and think of the surprise on his face when he realises that a Sarmatian army is now outside the walls of his capital, Kiat, in the north. Then the 1st Baktrian army swings round the mountains to hopefully crush him between the Baktrian armies, hopefully I can catch him in the light jungle as well where his cavalry army won't be so effective and where my light infantry should excel.

I think with all the purchases (I just bought more ships from Carthage as well) that have gone on I may have the equal of the KH navy, but probably lack since Epeiros has a few ships as well. Nevertheless, my navy is so strung out all over the place, I couldn't even guarantee to have local superiority anywhere, so the timing of this is crucial.

I think it would be best if you have your main force on Makedonia itself, when other forces strike at Rhodes and Crete. Let him panic and divert his ships east while in the west we land troops (scouting throughly first) on the west and east of KH and siege/assault Athens, Sparta and Corinth. Other forces (large) tie down his forces in the passes.

This is very good news in the east. Sounds classic strategy. His reaction should indeed be something to savour!

Well, I'll have to work out just what I can afford with what money I've got left. If I've got a decent amount of spare cash after recruiting some more land-based troops, then I could feasibly build a navy myself and then have 3 waves of Seleukid troops in the attack against the KH.

1st Wave
4,000 strong, with a mixture of missile/hvy inf and cav. They are on the way and should be there in 2 turns.

2nd Wave
Roughly 10,000, which i'll make sure are mainly phalanx troops and cav, with possibly some elephants with. This army will be aboard Makedon's ships and so would arrive in Greece I imagine in about 4 turns time.

3rd Wave
With my own navy I could maybe transport a further 5,000 to attack Rhodes. If I recruited my navy turn after next then they could be at Rhodes in 3/4 turns time, most likely 4. This would hopefully draw KH's navy away, and maybe even some troops.

Apart from the lvl3 defences at Rhodes though, do we know how strongly it's garrisoned? quality of the garrison force? If it's only militia class troops (native spearman) then 5,000 of my men could easily take it. If he's garrisoned it with missile troops and elite phalanx I may well need more than 5,000.

Last time I drove by Rhodes it had merely a regiment of levy hoplites. Crete has a Brigade of Creten Archers. I would say it's 100% unlikely this has changed. He's done virtually nothing since that Delphi move. A move which a tortoise could have overtaken by the way.

Okie Dokie, no problem then. I'll do as said above and attack in 3 waves, may not even need 5,000 for the attack on Rhodes.
Well if he's that slow then we should have little difficulty trapping him in the mountain passes of Greece, my thoughts would be that he probably won't split his army either.

Good good!

good stuff

so 1st wave goes for crete, ready to reinforce me on the peloponnese when the time comes

your main wave goes for the makedonian mainland ready for the drive through the passes, and wave number three takes rhodes?

just wonderful